First off, I am not asking where to find them. I am not asking if they are legal / illegal. We all know they are out there and easily avail. If I am breaking any rules regarding this topic, I apologize in advance, as I did not see anything regarding this.

What is everyones thoughts on repros?

I kinda want to pick some up instead of paying the price for higher priced games (games worth $100 plus). I feel so conflicted on this, tho. I guess, for me anyways, it really comes down to money. If I could afford the higher priced games, I wouldn't consider it. But given my financial situation (I am on a fixed income), they suddenly become very appealing...

Ugh...

I think repros are fine under certain circumstances as far as moral grey areas go (ignoring completely the legal aspect of things.)

If you can buy a physical copy of a game easily enough, and within reason as far as price goes, there's no reason to go with a repro, even if the game itself costs more than a repro would. What your threshold of "within reason" is however, is another matter altogether. If a custom repro would set you back $20-$30, but a legit physical copy would cost $50? I would say, go legit. If we're talking a rare game like say, Snow Brothers for the NES around $200-ish, or a Bubble Bobble 2 for over $500? I'd be much more inclined to go with a repro.

That said, there can also be a moral compromise in some situations. Is there another version of the game you want that's a lot more affordable? Say, a digital copy on the eshop? Or a more affordable release on another platform? If I already owned a copy of something in another format I'd feel a lot less guilty about acquiring a custom repro of the same game since I "bought" it.

I would recommend only picking up repros for games which either are almost impossible to get (e.g. Nintendo Campus Challenge, Earthbound) or games which were cancelled, hacks or homebrew (e.g Star Fox 2, Waluigi's Taco Stand, AVGN Atari) however you should probably not add them to your collection on this website since they are still not the original copies.

@dhobo

This is mostly my thoughts. Except, the ONLY system I currently have is the NES. So, digital versions of the same game are a non-option. I was only considering games in the triple digit price. I am also playing on real hardware (front loader - The same machine my wife had since she was 9. We sold mine, that I had since I was 7, when we got together 15ish years ago when we sold "duplicate" items off).

@Cheesyben

Noted.
As you didn't directly state it, I am assuming games like Little Samson and Flintstones Surprise at Dino Peak (which are both readily available, but expensive), are a no to repros?
Games like Campus Challenge and World Championships I'm not interested in. I'm only collecting games that were avail at regular retail.
Earthbound? I assume you mean the SNES release? I donno if I would call that rare. Its easily available, just expensive. Like Little Samson.
Stadium Events. Thats a rare game. But, its also the same game as World Class Track Meet. The me 5ish years ago (when I had money), would have been after it and all the other variants like that. But, now that I am on a limited income, I don't see the point. I am actively playing these games. They are not just sitting on a shelf or in a box. So a Gray or Gold cart. Silver or Yellow label. Doesnt matter much. Ex: I already have Punch Out will not be actively looking to get Mike Tyson's Punch Out. If I pick it up in a lot, Id dump one of them as a duplicate.
What about translated Japanese games? Ys, Mother, FF? I assume you are including these as hacks.

As all our (my wife and mine) cartridge games disappeared, I am now only collecting for NES. A complete playable collection of games avail at retail, including PAL exclusive games. I will probably pick up a few SNES and N64 games, but mostly to replace games we used to have (Mario, Star Fox, Metroid, Tetrisphere). After I finish NES, I may do a Famicom and Famicom Disk System collection. Depends on how difficult it is to get those games in the US. Yes, I do speak and read some Japanese (slowly learning)

I suppose I'm more confused by them than anything. If you are collecting, then the repro is essentially useless, at best a placeholder for a game you want in your collection but can't afford at the moment. Better to save the money and put it toward a legit copy, imo. I suppose I understand if the game is very expensive and super difficult to find, but honestly most repros I've seen are of mid-range games that have a good reputation (a lotta Mario) not the Extreme cases I'm thinking of. If you aren't collecting, why not just emulate or put it on a flash cart instead?

I guess there is a small middle ground where you can be enough of an enthusiast to want to play on the original hardware, but you only want one game and aren't invested in the platform enough to just get a flashcart. Seems like a pretty narrow audience to me, but I guess the things must be popular enough, since they're everywhere now, and they do provide a useful check on preventing the prices of certain games from spiraling off into the stratosphere,

I do like the idea of "repros" for homebrew, translations, or well done ROM hacks, however.

@Eltrion

Thanx for the reply!

I am defiantly a collector and NOT a fan of playing on emulation. It's just different. The response times are different, the display is different. This is playing OG hardware than immediately playing on emulation. Same controllers and display device. I have a Pi and never use it because of this. Some games for the NES are unplayable (Ex: MegaMan 2 or Transformers: Mystery of Optimus Prime). Plus, using a Pi on a regular basic has its own issues. Turn it off incorrectly and you are redoing everything on it. Look at i funny and it hangs. I just want my stuff to work and Emulation doesn't do that. It's not an appliance and will never replace one. If that flavor of free works for you, more power to you. But, it's not for me.

I understand Nintendo uses emulation for the virtual console. I dont have a modern console. When I refer to emulation, I am not referring to any "official" use, largely as I am not familiar with them. I only have an NES, AV FamiCom (just got it for my 40th Bday couple days ago) and SNES.

Flash carts have their own issues. Notably. not all the mappers are supported still. I feel these land in the same space as emulation. If that flavor of free works for you, more power to you. But it's not for me.

If you know where and how to get them, you can get EVERY game for any cartridge based system in a repro! Including custom games and hacks!! I do have some in my collection now, but only because of price restraints. Little Samson, Flintstones, etc. Or Hacks: Super Mario 3 Mix. I dont see these as placeholders. I mean, I'm NEVER going to pay several hundred dollars for a used NES game. After you remove all the "prototype" and "special edition" games, the avg price for a NES game is under $10! This is why I chose to obtain a complete collection, while choosing not to do the same for SNES...

@loomdog32

Obviously a Pi is going to give you imperfect emulation its a system on a chip. Put a middle of the road PC with Higan or another emulator focused on accuracy in to do the job instead and you'd have a much different experience. Dolphin too, It's quickly becoming superior to the original hardware in terms of capabilities. N64 emulation I will admit is terrible no mater what you are running it on though,

If something wouldn't be supported by a flashcard it wouldn't be supported by a repro either outside of donor parts from real games, outside of some hacks that were designed to run in emulator, even then it's more just that the Flashcart maker wasn't expecting the game to ask for system resources that the original system didn't have. Also occasionally things that aren't possible (or are very expensive) with repros are possible with flash carts, see N64 realtime clock. Of course this depends on how much you pay for your flashcart, but if you get a top end one it would't outweigh the cost of a repro by more than 15, and a cheap one can be had for the price of 2 or 3 repros. You also have the advantage of being able to update hacks which get updates like Smash Remix.

I do not feel that a flashcart is comparable to emulation at all, and even if I were to concede that a repro would be in very much the same boat. Most repros are built on the same techniques as flashcarts just with built in storage instead of sd card slots. A lot of gameboy repros are technically just old school style 1-Game flashcarts that are flashed through the pins with a special device.

The parts in the repro or flashcart are not the same as the parts in the original cartrige, but the hardware of the console itself is the same. I don't see much of a difference beyond a slot on the physical game shelf.

3ds cartridges can't really be faked. The dev work was never put in because pirates just installed the game as a digital copy instead of using flashcarts.

I've already conceded that repro's sometimes make sense in the case of $500+ games like Little Samson or Shantae, and to give shelf space to especially well made romhacks, but it still feels to me that you've turned a spot in your collection that should be a stand out into something kind of mediocre. Sure in some cases it's better than nothing at all, but it still feels like it has more in common with a 15 in 1 bootleg cart to me than it does to the original game. Charming and cheesy, but not really something that would hold a candle to even a fairly common game new in the box with all the paperwork. And a fake of a 50$ game like Mario Party 2 is exactly the same as any other chinese bootleg, because that's what it is. A bootleg cartridge with slightly more attention to detail. And rom hacks vary based on individual reputation but a lot of them struggle to shed that air of "Super MArio 7 for Sega Genesis" fakery. The ones that do, of course, are the ones that first become popular through emulation. And of course on the other hand you have the bootlegs that are so infamous that they wrap around to being interesting again like Ronaldhino Soccer. Once games get enough of a history behind them, they become worthwhile even it they were originally cheap garbage. At the end of the day isn't the history of the game what makes it worth collecting. A repro just seems to lack that history somehow.

On a more positive note, I have nothing but praise for developers that develop new games for old hardware and release it on "Repro" cartriges with all the box and paperwork and everything you'd expect to come with a licenced title, like Tobu Tobu Girl. A true labour of love that is built on a true knowledge and understanding of the original console.

"What works for me?" You keep saying that but in the end what works for me are original physical cartridges. Original System, Original Cartrige, Original Chips inside both. Second choice would be flashcart for portable systems because of the advantage of taking thousands of games on the go with you, and as I've said before, a repro is basically a flashcart with only one game on it. What's the point?

In the end though your collection is your business though and if you want to put a Little Sampson or Super Mario 3 Mix on your display shelf to show off that's fine. I'm just saying I'd put it in down in the cupboard below with 255 in 1, and would be more likely to give that space to an Everdrive, something with a history to it like Ronaldihno Soccer, or a Nice unlicenced title like Tobu Tobu Girl.

Regardless of whether you choose to use a physical or digital copy of a game, a reproduction or authentic copy, emulation or running on original hardware, an official release or a hack / mod / whatever...at the end of the day, it's all about playing games! Sure, I'm a collector too and I have plenty of sealed games sitting on my shelf...some of which were purchased solely for sitting on my shelf. I know I'm not the only one that has done that and I know there are plenty of others out there that find that odd. But for the most part, if it hits my shelf it's because I want to play it at some point. Even if it's just to goof around with an awful game for giggles or to record a short gameplay video of an old sports game I played back in the day. Or sometimes I'll pick up games just because I think they could be a hit when I have friends over for local competition.

I think everyone's situation and goals are different and whatever works best in your situation / setup is what you should go for. Personally, I don't own any repros, but I'm also not a big collector / gamer for the systems they're most prevalent on, so it's never really been an option for me. My main issue with repros is that I don't like it when they're sold as being authentic...that's definitely not cool. A clearly visible "REPRODUCTION" type label is a nice gesture to reduce or eliminate confusion. I've started to come around to emulation though, especially as the modern mini-consoles have improved over the years. I'm a bit of a weenie with super tough games these days and time is limited, so save states are a glorious thing for me.

I have an Everdrive for N64, but I've honestly never even used it. I thought I would, but I haven't done it yet. I've used Pseudo Saturn Kai though to play through the fan translation of Shining Force III: Scenario 2 though and it's awesome that there is enough interest to make things like that possible. All of it's pretty neat technology and it makes me so happy to see the N64 and Saturn (among others) still kickin' after all these years.

But going back to repros and such, I think there's something to be said for just having it on your shelf. It may not be authentic, but I love perusing my shelves and actually looking at a game when I'm thinking about what I want to play or remembering how much fun I had with one in the past. I don't think you can get that quite as easily if you have an Everdrive, a mini-console, or a digital copy. So while those are perfectly fine for the actual act of playing a game, there's still a physical connection that can be made with an item on your shelf. Or maybe I'm just weird like that, I dunno. I do know when GOG first launched, I printed out DVD labels and burned the .exe files onto a disc for displaying them on my shelf. I've since retired those, but thinking back on that, I guess it's because I wanted to make that connection as I played the games. It was also nice to know what I had since Completionator only existed in the primordial ooze in my brain at the time

Ultimately though, as I mentioned above (and I think both @loomdog32 and @Eltrion have alluded to this), it's whatever makes you happy and works best in your situation. There isn't a right or wrong answer (gray area legality issues aside, since that's a bit of an elephant in the room for some things), just roll with what ya got and have fun!

Yes, for sure play it however you like, the important thing is to keep old games alive. It's just for me Repro's are mostly a weird middle ground that lack the advantages of either full physical or full digital. However the technology they use also allows people to produce homebrew and keep a console's library growing decades after release, which I think is exciting.

So I think you're right in that intent is a big part of what you have to take into consideration. There's a big difference between the upcoming Shantae reproduction run from Limited Run with the involvement of the original developers, and the guy trying to sell a stack Worms Armageddon repros for 75$ a pop out of China.

Another thing that I probably care about more than most people is the ROM chips themselves. Disk based games just aren't the same for me somehow. The chips have a magic about them, and the poorly done chips in Chinese repros sometimes... well I suppose they offend my sensibilities in some way.

I guess my ideal world is one where Repros exist but they are well done and not trying to pass as original product, with repro mappers and rom chips matching the original configuration. N64 Repros are paticularly bad for this with basically every repro I've seen using SRAM instead of the original saving method.

(Also can someone shell out for a unique gameboy cartrige mold already? The ones that just say "GAME" that everyone uses are cheap and nasty looking.)

I think it is fine for anyone who wants a cartridge for something translated or extremly rare/expensive that they want to play as long as you buy or make something clearly not trying to pass it off as an original. I have made 3 repro games for myself all made from completly new bords (ininitylives) and black shells with custom labels so noone would think it is an original for translated games.